“:| It depends how relaxed I'm feeling at the time Lemming. . Also on a serious note. . I was over 40 when I saw my first badger in daylight. . It was running across a field. . Word is that there are people actually breeding them and releasing them into the wild now. . I found one hiding behind some pallets in the barn the other day and a neighbouring farmer of mine said he approached one and it growled at him. . The last thing we need is badgers without a natural fear of humans. . It always used to be said the only safe way to approach a badger was with a pitch fork.”

“Charles, if we're being pedantic, raptors (you may know them as 'raptures') may 'take off' while badgers rarely do.

But on a serious note, I have noticed, recently larger numbers of stoats in my area. It is a pleasure to watch them.”

“As you know, Charles, I try to rely on pukkah published information in scientific journals and proper research reports. I have posted some requests for info from the RSPB and BTO websites and also emailed a contact on the RSPB research staff asking if he can point me towards a good reference or two. I haven't been able to come up with anything definitive from a Google search, other than the reference to bird remains in badger faeces that I quoted before, which came from a journal review paper - which also said that although badgers didn't seem to be strongly implicated in affecting bird populations, this needed to be confirmed by further research.

I must contradict your statement that the information quoted by organizations like the RSPB and the BTO "is not complete or comprehensive. . It is very limited and always subjective." Both these organizations not only do a lot of scientific research themselves but the RSPB in particular have built up a very powerful scientific database and library facility and their scientists are very well-informed. I visited the RSPB headquarters recently and it is very impressive, reflecting the large amount of money they receive from member subscriptions and donations. As with any scientific subject, you have to differentiate between what you read in the popular press and what is published in scientific journals and research reports.

Anyway, I think we have taken up enough space here so I'll leave it for now. If I find out anything useful I may pass it on via your website, assuming there is a facility for that.”

“:| And certainly neither am I FW, but I see far more wildlife now regularly. . Stoats taking rabbits, weasels, and many game birds as well as all the deer. . I take issue with your statement, . "they will be able to tell you the known facts about badger predation of ground nesting birds." . . I just don't accept that they are "Known Facts". . They just continually defend the approach they take. . Their data is not complete or comprehensive. . It is very limited and always subjective.

I will just be keeping a watching brief because far too many facts and statements keep referring back to the early nineties when both badger and raptor numbers were starting to really take off.”

“Charles - as I said, I am not an expert on birds. You may have something and I suggest you write to the RSPB and BTO (British Trust for Ornithology). I'm sure that if you adopt a neutral, enquiring tone they will be able to tell you the known facts about badger predation of ground nesting birds. The RSPB website has a section for asking questions, but I would say it would be worth asking the BTO as well. Remember that these organisations primary interest is in birds and they are concerned with anything that might be affecting bird populations.

I would dispute your statement that there is more wildlife about than ever before. Some species have increased - notably raptors and badgers, and rabbits are coming back after Myxy, but looking at long term trends there are more decliners than increasers. Apart from some raptors, the only bird species that are really doing well and have been increasing subsrtantually are gulls - probably due to increasing landfill! Many insect species are on the decline, not just the obvious things like butterflies, bumble bees and honey bees, but many of the less conspicuous creatures that are all part of a healthy ecosystem and characteristic of less intensively managed farmland.

As I have said, I am sympathetic towards farmers, not just because of my background, and of course we have to produce food more efficiently as time passes. But there is point in just ignoring the recorded trends in wildlife because it is more comfortable to do so.

If there you see more wildlife about than ever before in your area that's great, but unfortunately it doesn't represent what's happening nationally - unless your perceptiion is influenced by the few species we have mentioned (mainly raptors, badgers and seagulls!) and possibly deer and urban foxes.”

“:| FW, I have no doubt that changes in farming practices have some effects, but I am far from convinced that apart from the chemicals; all have been bad. In fact apart from the well identified creatures, such as house sparrows and other birds; and hedgehogs and the like; we see far more wildlife about now than ever before. . Harvesting has always caused a few casualties, that's a sad fact of life. . Before Myxie it was seen as an excellent time to target rabbits as crops were levelled. . Obviously there is good work being done with birds like Cirl Buntings and it makes sense to find where there are still strong populations of other endangered birds, improve those habitats and gradually expand them. . But political correctness, like people getting upset about controlling foxes or grey squirrels or magpies is hampering real conservation. Lead shot etc. of course that makes sense. And all our waterways are far cleaner now which is great. . I just wish the scientists would examine a lot more closely what a constant diet of chlorine is doing to us all.

I picked up on this story when it suddenly dawned on me that all the birds mentioned were ground nesting. And 'sure as eggs', when I checked they were! . We've all been arguing about this for quite a few years now, but here at last, was clear evidence that the badger/raptor effect was out of control. . Both these species attack and feed on the vulnerable species at ground level and neither have any natural predators other than man. . . I severely question the wisdom of giving blanket protection to either, but particularly badgers. . They are now completely out of control.”

“Charles - just because one thing increases and another decreases it doesn't necessarily mean that one is the cause of the other. I'm not saying that badgers and/or raptors aren't contributory factors. But there are also many other known contributory habitat factors, so you can't just pin it on a particular factor without investigation.

Many years ago I was a keen coarse angler, fishing lakes and rivers in the Thames valley. Evidence began to emerge that swans were being poisoned by lead shot. There was an outcry from most anglers who claimed that it was orchestrated by the anti-angling lobby. They all said "how can spilling or discarding a few lead shot here and there cause these swan deaths. One article in an angling magazine showed a graph of increasing numbers of boat licences against declining swan populations over time, suggesting that swans were suffering lead poisoning from boat fuel. I would have liked to believe all this myself, but I obtained all the scientific papers and reports on the subject. This showed that many swan corpses that showed symptoms of lead poisoning had lead shot in their gizzards, that the incidence of swan death was higher in areas most densely fished, and also on more densely fished lakes than those not fished or sparsely fished - no boats on these. Behaviour studies also showed that swans tended to pick out lead shot selectively from the river bank and the stream bed. When you looked at all the information available it was clear that lead shot was very heavily implicated. I got a lot of stick writing about this in a fishing magazine from some (but by no means all) anglers who just didn't want to accept the evidence, despite any legitimate counter evidence. Swan numbers increased after they banned lead shot for fishing.

Like a lot of things, there was more than one factor involved. Areas that were most heavily fished, near towns, were also areas where swans get fed by the public, mainly by bred. There is research showing that water fowl fed mainly on a carbohydrate diet are more susceptible to lead poisoning.

A lot of things that seem bleedin' obvious to a lot of people turn out not to be the case when all the facts are taken into account.

It is possible that there are interactions between changes in farming methods and increased predation, and increases in predators may be a contributory factor. But my impression is that the evidence available does not suggest badgers to be heavily implicated in song bird declines.

Incidentally, I thought I had made it clear that I am not a government employee and am self employed. If you want to pay me to do extra research on the relationship between badger populations and song bird decline I will gladly do it (although I don't claim to be an expert in bird research), but you will have to accept that my interpretation of the results will be completely objective!”

“:| And how do you explain the North/South divide?

Right Wing Harvesters down South and Left Wing Badgers up North?”

“:| Skylarks are disappearing from areas that have never ever seen any silaging machinery and they normally lay 2 or 3 clutches a year any way.

All the birds pointed out by this report and by you are ground nesting. FACT . . Like many government employees, you justify your existence by coming up with a hypothesis and then argue black is white justifying it. . We just seen it again with Swine Flu. . Computer programming teaches you one thing. . When the algorithm is good and you find there is a problem; don't start looking for something complicated, look for something simple that is staring you in the face. . Solve problems. . Don't create them. . We have two problems. . bTB in cattle, and dwindling song bird numbers. . Two obvious recent anomalies exist. . An explosion in Raptor numbers and an explosion in Badger numbers. . But oh no. Your an 'expert' and you go out of your way to try and blame agriculture methods instead of dealing with the problem the way it has been dealt with for centuries.”

“A lot of skylarks get killed in silage fields. They don't know when they set up shop that they are going to get squashed by heavy machinery or decapitated before chicks have had a chance to fledge. They have just established second nests and in the aftermath with eggs hatching or about to hatch when along come the metal monsters again for the second cut. This is why silage fields are a 'sink habitat' for skylarks. It's a tough life down on the farm!”