“It would be very interesting to see if this campaign first saw the light of day in Cornwall and if it was started by residence of the county or not, or has it been brought in to use Cornwall as a starting point for a campaign?”

“I don't think this came from Cornwall, although I could be wrong.

Some high-profile supporters include some from SNP and Plaid

http://tinyurl.com/7bj2qgy”

“Can Cornwall afford to "Abolish the Duchy" that is the question? Those who have been shouting "Big Ears" and the like will have something to think about now no doubt. The time seems to be right for change, the monarchy could well have had its day who knows, where else better to start the ball rolling than from Cornwall, we can bet the nats will try to salvage a little recognition and self importance out of it somewhere down the line.”

“The nats would lose everything.

Cornwall would benefit from a share of the proceeds of the abolition, but the end of the"de jure Duchy"would scupper all the nats despise on one hand, but desperately need on the other.”

“Does this mean without the monarchy I would be less Cornish than what I am now, not at all, changing a little name on a bit of title deed isn't going to change me, been around too long to listen to this lot or any nat trying to play the, "I am more Cornish than you boy".

Good topic by the way.”

“Don't worry YC Republic are not effective at all and have increasingly lost the argument.

http://tinyurl.com/7dnvz8t

This has been a particularly good year for the monarchy.

Any constitutional change to Cornwall should be decided by the people of Cornwall, who the laws on statute directly affect.

From a personal point of view I don't see any improvement from an elected head of state in Cornwall as opposed to Chas. It's a bit like changing the House of Lords, it's not that interesting at the end of the day and very unlikely to happen meaningfully.”

“Here's a better link to illustrate my point:

http://tinyurl.com/brhczaf”

“YAWN!!!”

“Wonderfull to see the Nats falling to bits over this....reducing an already tiny minority into splinters.

LOL”

“I always said that Charles put the "C" in Cornwall, just as expected, I had a rough time with the nats, not anymore so it seems, they need Charlie boy more than he needs them. It is surprising what a little flag on a boat can do, isn't it?”

“Nats confused message always has been self defeating -ie ''the duchy proves our case, down with the duchy''
You'd have to be madder than a sh*t house rat to follow that.”

“You guys don't seem to have anything constructive to say on the subject!”

“You guys don't seem to have anything constructive to say on this subject!”

“Just out of interest how about a little straw poll of our own on here. How would you vote regarding getting rid of the monarchy, would it be YES to get rid of them or NO to keep them?
As for people, the monarchy I have no problem, what they stand for is a different kettle of fish, I would definitely vote Yes get rid of them.”

“Definetly keep them
You need only look at italy america and france to see why.
A non political head of state avoids the berlesconis and bushs etc”

“Keep the monarchy.
Ditch the Duchy.”

“Everyone loves the idea of the UK aswell, it works thats why so many people wish to move to Britain.”

“It has given the various splinter-groups of nationalism a turn, has this move by Republic.

This campaign has the support of those in the SNP and Plaid, so, in reality, cannot be called "Anglo-centric" or "Little Englander", (although,of course there are those that still do).

Suddenly, the monarchy are "flavour of the month", simply because the "death of the Duchy" will mean the collapse of the nationalist "house of cards", built as it is on ancient "rights, laws and customs" all linked to the Crown and the House of Windsor, long-time target of neo-Celtic bile.

It is delicious to watch.”

“The problem for the fringe idealists is they are such a hotch potch of differing agenda groups..some are keen on being a celt although cannot hope to define who ..is or is'nt a celt....some want to define themselves and anybody they meet as Cornish/welsh....some are republicans ..some are arguing from a point of historical legalities..some are communist wannabbees...some are lost leaderless left wing..some are just plain anarchists but by far the biggest group are the ignorant gullible who need to project thier failures on an external group.
Once you've untangled this mash of groups you are left with a few dozen lone voices and a few low iq connon fodder. {where is Chy btw}”

“"I would definitely vote Yes get rid of them."

Even though we are living in a multicultural society today the chances of us ever having anyone other than a white person as head of state is very remote, is this fair? With the Republicans so it seems, the people get to choose, who knows we could even have a Cornish president.”

“Republic of Germany works well enough.
But only because we radically changed their electoral system after ww2.
Good examples and bad exsist in every system {except communism} however , as i understand things , a constituitional monarchy system is recognised as consistently a good system.
I always like to see a sure and measurable advantage in changing the status quo and republicanism would seem to me to open the door to our very poor politcians who are really run by the press.
The Monarchy are not subject to Murdoch's press influence .. they are respected internationally etc etc.
Having a president from a minority group might be interesting but what practicle purpose is that.
I get that Pres Obama is a genuienly fantastic phenomena for the whole western world and respect USA for their courage, but they are not the Uk and President Brown/Kinnock /Thatcher is the worry.
In short democracy is a charade in the uk run by media moguls and until we mature away from our ridiculous two party politics we are better off with a monarchy, and probably after we sort these things imho.”

“Perhaps the alternative is the type of monarchy popular in Scandinavia?

Norway, Sweden and Denmark seem to muck along with the minimum of pomp and pomposity.”

“Looks like Truro Craig will be at the meeting.

Waving his flag and being brave.”

“...and Netherlands
big difference is the addiction to red top comics/newspapers.........we are a nation addicted to sensationalism/celebrity far more than our contemporaries in other northern european states...”

“just looked at c23 and a half......when will they realize that half a dozen freaks on a private web forum does not constitute a nation .....or a case for devoloution?”

“It's quite clear from this thread that the trolls - YC, H_T=egybgy or whatever and Slimslad (there's only 3 of 'em!) - have not got a clue, are not intersted or even slightly understand Cornwall's constitution or the subject matter. Better for all 3 of you to just keep following the discussion on C24.”

“Cornish Nats and the spin of propaganda! They don't seem able to work out which side of the fence they should be on! Then another problem for the nats now is they have no spokes person,

So a question to any Cornish Nat, who is your elected leader?”

“carvath makes a good point... we are vastly overstaffed..it should really only take 1 bright adolescent to deconstruct this shower of dreamers?”

“The Leader?

Must be someone from the Stannary Parliament,(although they were never elected).

Even Mr Cole denies MK want a separate State.”

“by Carvath
"Better for all 3 of you to just keep following the discussion on C24."

And where does this leave you Mike? You can't resist having a little dig, nothing to offer regarding the debate, just a little dig, keep digging boy, no fool like an old fool so they say lol.”

“Most nationalists want a devolved assembly for the nation of Cornwall as part of GB like Wales and Scotland have now or UK if NI is included. Not many want separatism as some seem to think. The devolved assembly is what 50,000 inhabitants signed for and is primarily economic in motivation. The cultural side: language, signage, etc is progressing quite well anyway. Cornwall is better placed as a Duchy with its laws and privileges to negotiate a devolved assembly rather than as a mere county. The devolved assemblies mentioned above work perfectly with a monarchy at present. Even Alex Salmond is coy when monarchy is mentioned.”

“Carvath
50,000 inhabitants"

Another unsuccessful posting, as why is there only to be found 800 odd people wishing to sign the online e-petition? Is it because the 50,000 wanted only a "devolved assembly" and the 800 odd want "Recognition of Cornwall as a National Minority"?

There is there no joined up thinking with this Nationalist idea either,

No mandate, No elected people, No leader, No website, etc

MK aren't even onboard, who is speaking for them? I wouldn't trust it, in fact trust what? Nothing put out in the press, it is hard not to laugh!

And now they going to attempt to put forward a case to a group of well organised people(Republic), who are the Nationalist going to be speaking for? The people of Cornwall, if this is the case please show us our policy or otherwise you be failing the very people who live in Cornwall.”

“How do they propose abolishing the Duchy? given that it is a "private estate", nationalise it or what? what about the D of C lands beyond the Tamar, do they propose occupying those as well?

A devolved assembly is logical and acheivable we are already at the halfway house of a Unitary Council but local control of agriculture fisheries and tourism would enable policies that that enhance Cornwalls economy.

True politics involves the art of the possible what is proposed (abolition of the D of C) is not possible without revolution where what Cornwall really needs is logical evolution in the form of beneficial change for everyone.

Few right thinking Cornish people have any issue with Her Majesty the Queen who has demonstrated a wisdom beyond the whit of politicians over the years culminating in her incredibly moving achievements in Eire and Ulster in the last year, maybe some of the Royal offspring are dysfunctionally wonky but thats life, the Heirs Heir currently shows great promise.

Every time a loony scheme like this comes up it merely alienates those who might otherwise be prepared to embrace what would always be a significant leap of faith for most.”

“Gurnards head do people honestly fall for this arty farty, menopausal, windy wishy washy non sense ie ''a devolved assembly is logical''
It is not logical to have yet another level of beaurocracy replicating several other beauracracies.”

“Its The Dukes Country why does'nt he run it ?”

“by Carvath
"Most nationalists want a devolved assembly for the nation of Cornwall as part of GB like Wales and Scotland have now or UK if NI is included. Not many want separatism as some seem to think."

And do you have any data to substantiate this statement?”

“"Local control of agriculture fisheries and tourism would enable policies that that enhance Cornwalls economy."

With an estimate 84% of taxpayers in the U.K. resident in England, who would pay for Cornwall's "local control"?”

“youngcornwall:

Only the 50,000 + authenticated signatures to substantite it - what do you have to negate it!”

“What fun to see this lot fizzin and poppin I was bored at first now I am amused they are like a buck of cluck hens he he he!!!

Besides even bureaucrats need a job!!!

Perhaps the Duke is not inclined to run his "private estate" cos he has flunkeys to do for him.

As you are one of the 84% that will be paying slimslad... GOODY!!!

LOCAL CONTROL NOW SLIMSLADS PAYING WOOOO WHOOOOO.”

“Apologies should be "bunch of cluck hens"”

“by Carvath
"Only the 50,000 + authenticated signatures to substantite it"

So you are saying 50,000 = "Most nationalists wanting a devolved assembly Not many want separatism."
That poll was taken over ten years ago, and who is to say they were all nationalist, heaven forbid, without any data it is only guesswork. Mind you after ten years slowly but surely.”

“So you reckon I am menopausal then Trevorrow? Arty farty? Wishy washy? spouting nonsense?

Bet you wouldnt say that to my face in fact I dont think you would dare say it to my face cos I dont think you are brave enough.

With all the interminable posts you have made you have not once said anthing constructive, I put it to you that you are a belicose coward hiding behind another mans name who would run a mile if you were put in the same parish with me because I am prepared to face you down as a traitor to Cornwall.”

“"As you are one of the 84% that will be paying slimslad... GOODY!!!"

As you live in England,Poldice, so do you.”

“"How do they propose abolishing the Duchy? given that it is a "private estate", nationalise it or what? what about the D of C lands beyond the Tamar, do they propose occupying those as well?

How?

An Act of Parliament, old chap.”

“I live in the ANCIENT COUNTRY OF CORNWALL and I expect to pay my dues, I am not a tax dodger, as long as taxes are fair everyone must pay according to what they can afford.

Presently under the present tax regime most of what we pay is wasted anyway due to incompetence and innefficiency.

Act of Parliament? Just like that? but they keep telling us the D of C is a private estate and that could be nationalisation.

No better let them keep what they have and tax them fairly but firmly let them pay their dues like everyone else.”

“As Andrew George, St Ives MP found out in 1997, there's an injunction preventing MPs questioning or discussing the status and power of the Duchy: parliamentary questions are blocked, so there is a potential problem with an act.”

“obviously tha duchy has taken a back seat..the cornish movement should concentrate on winning harts and minds rather than attack a non player...but that would require real intelligence...”

“The D of C has always taken a back seat quietly mining a rich seam of income, Nationalists have been wrong to rant about that which like dark matter will absorb energy to no avail.

The future does lie in winning hearts and minds with a genuine message that things could be better, those whon trade in bitterness and envy have no place in this particular crusade however sincere their beliefs may be.

I used to place my faith in them, they have failed Cornwall and if they have any honour should stand aside to make way for those more politically astute who could make a difference, after all the Irish managed to move on in a spirit of goodwill with the Queen last year.”

“"As Andrew George, St Ives MP found out in 1997, there's an injunction preventing MPs questioning or discussing the status and power of the Duchy: parliamentary questions are blocked, so there is a potential problem with an act."

This is why I find this situation "delicious".

A nationalist using the example of the injunction to protect the Duchy, it seems.

There is no block to a Bill being put forward for the abolition of the Duchy.
Even the injunction itself is a construct of the High Court, whose laws are set by Parliament, and therefore can be altered by Parliament.”

“"I used to place my faith in them, they have failed Cornwall"

No one has failed Cornwall, Cornwall is Cornwall, there are those who think Cornwall is something special because like me they were born in Cornwall. Nevertheless Cornwall is no different than any other coastal area in this country with the exception of the few over the top inhabitants that is, who know it all (after they have been told, of course) who want to be more Cornish than most.”

“Youngcornwall, how much time have you spent in Cornwall in the last 20 years?”

“by poldice - Saturday, July 14 2012, 9:37AM

"The D of C has always taken a back seat quietly mining a rich seam of income, Nationalists have been wrong to rant about that which like dark matter will absorb energy to no avail.

The future does lie in winning hearts and minds with a genuine message that things could be better, those whon trade in bitterness and envy have no place in this particular crusade however sincere their beliefs may be.

I used to place my faith in them, they have failed Cornwall and if they have any honour should stand aside to make way for those more politically astute who could make a difference, after all the Irish managed to move on in a spirit of goodwill with the Queen last year."
------------------------------------------------------

Poldice, I must confess that there are times when you come across as dishing out mixed messages, but your observation about the D of C is true, irrespective of who is expending the energy, and for whatever reason, or purpose. However, at what point is it ever the correct way to fail to point out 'what is a wrong'? You know the saying "for evil to succeed….. etc."

It is also true that the future depends upon the 'winning of hearts and minds' with, as you say, "genuine messages". Do you agree that that depends entirely upon 'truth, and transparency', warts and all, being available as part of the whole package? Otherwise, how can anyone make a proper 'informed' judgement of the issues involved?

Please forgive my confusion, but, who actually is it that has "failed Cornwall"?
"The nationalists"?
"those who trade in bitterness and envy"?, or,
"those more politically astute", who have been wandering around, blindly, for much longer?

Given that the Lady and her Lad know better than anyone else the truth about the Cornish Constitution, then should we also be looking for some "spirit of goodwill" as well? What, I wonder, could precipate such a thing? Applied pressure on 'the Duchy', perhaps, so that the truth will out?”

“@Carvath (re Saturday, July 14 2012, 8:31PM)

I can confirm that YC did respond @ July 14 2012, 4:22PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

=======================
@H_Trevorrow (re Friday, July 13 2012, 11:33PM)

-------------------------------------------
Trevorrow said: - "obviously tha duchy has taken a back seat..the cornish movement should concentrate on winning harts and minds rather than attack a non player...but that would require real intelligence..."
--------------------------------------------

Wrong again! What takes "real intelligence" is to back up one's "opinions" with real evidence.

Where is your evidence to prove that "tha (sic) duchy" is a non-player, to counter the evidence that I have provided (elsewhere) to show that he (the Duke) is a key player in all of the Cornish people's problems, but principally in connection with culpability and complicity, in collusion with 'the Crown' & State, to Cornish Genocide? He is the one that stands by idly and allows the unacceptable to continue.”

“So just to clear up a couple of big points,

What is the Nats take on the "the duchy" and are they all in agreement on a way forward?

As being in modern democratic society has anyone asked the people? As power is exercised by government and the D of C is spread over a large area that is not just Cornwall, who's call will it be ? A few Nats that haven't made any impact on the democratic process or Republic who seem to know how to organise and make an impact, if you don't agree just read C24 it is causing some to question others.”

“ebxdlb_ your postings bear a remarkable resemblance to another poster on this forum. Are you using more than one identity on here?

What is your obsession with Cornwall24? it is a minor unrelated forum. It does not speak for all Cornish Nationalists.

The Windsor family are accepted by some Nationalists in the other Countries of Greater Britain as well. In Scotland, Wales, Ireland. There again, others want rid of them. The SNP have a wait and see policy. 'Republic' are not in with a chance of achieving anything at this time. Elizabeth is reasonably popular. It is what happens when she dies that will prove interesting.

The few posters on Cornwall24 and the few poster on this small forum have differing views amongst themselves. Why, even English Nationalist Mr Harvey from Birmingham (aka youngcornwall) has said he feels nothing for them. So, do all English feel the same?”

“by EndUKRule
"What is your obsession with Cornwall24?"

I have obsession with Cornwall24?”

“Yes. You and the three or four others here, having been banned from that forum, seem to have an interest in those who post there.

The views on that forum are that. Views. Not policy of any group or party. No more than the views here are policy of any group or party.

Why do the three or four of you who post here under various identities keep referring to Cornwall 24? Is it an obsessive illness?”

“by ebxdlb_
"What is the Nats take on the "the duchy" and are they all in agreement on a way forward?"

At this moment in time they are just treading water, just waiting to see which way the wind blows. The flag on the boat took them by surprise, there they found something new to run with, something above their highest expectations, it is far too soon to ask about "the Duchy", unless public support for a "Republic" starts to take off that is.”

“What a load of **** 'youngcornwall'. You are basing your sad little Midlander comment on what half a dozen or so have posted on Cornwall 24.The Nationalists are not treading water. Most won't even care about the visit by 'Republic'. You really do come up with utter rubbish Mr. Harvey.”

“by ebxdlb_ - Saturday, July 14 2012, 10:14PM

"So just to clear up a couple of big points,

What is the Nats take on the "the duchy" and are they all in agreement on a way forward?
-------------------------------------------------------------

Since you and your friends seem intent on using the term "Nats", without any qualification as to what that means, or to whom that term applies, then your little group are the only ones that can come up with a definitive method to determine, and obtain, what that answer might be. Nevertheless, it is necessary to point out that there is a critical flaw in your thought process. Can you guess what that flaw might be?

=================
by ebxdlb_ - Saturday, July 14 2012, 10:14PM

As being in modern democratic society has anyone asked the people?
-------------------------------------------------------------

That is a rather disingenuous question, since you already know for a fact that that has not happened.

All one can hope for in your "modern democratic society" is that when/if it comes to such a debate that ALL RELEVANT INFORMATION WILL BE BROUGHT INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN so that we can celebrate a 'real' democratic process and not the current 'pretend' version.

=================
by ebxdlb_ - Saturday, July 14 2012, 10:14PM

As power is exercised by government and the D of C is spread over a large area that is not just Cornwall, who's call will it be ?
-------------------------------------------------------------

This will be entirely dependent upon whether the process follows a genuinely legal and proper constitutional process, where all the facts surrounding the Duchy are brought out into the public domain.

Your observation regarding the Duchy of Cornwall is seriously flawed – as you well know, if you have read through the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread

http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4

The Duchy of Cornwall is the Territory of Cornwall. There are private estates of the Duke that exist both inside and outside of that Territory, but which do not represent the legal & constitutional entity known as "The Duchy of Cornwall". That is the official lie, - the Immaculate Deception! – that will be exposed by a proper debate over Republic's Campaign.

Once that official lie is exposed within such a public arena, it will be necessary to dig deeper into the Constitutional Settlement that formalised the Cornish Territory from the Earldom into a "restored" Duchy as a 'perpetual grant' to the heir to the 'English' Crown, in 1337. This will, in turn, show that the Cornish Territory (this "Province of the Britons") is extra-territorial to England and a Territorial Possession under the direct protection of 'the Crown' within which was also inalienably annexed, forever, the Civil Government, which most people know today as 'the administrative county'.

Therefore, there are three aspects to the Republic Campaign that would need to be addressed and resolved.
Firstly, the true de jure constitutional one,
Secondly, the issue of Cornish Rights, and,
Thirdly, the 'private' estates.

As we are talking about this "Province of the Britons", then it is purely a matter for the Cornish people, in discussion about the future constitutional settlement. (q.v. Dr Johnson's Declaration of Cornish Independence).

This will, however, depend upon a sincere display of honesty, openness, integrity and transparency by a historically corrupt Crown & State.”

“by EndUKRule
"What a load of **** 'youngcornwall'. You are basing your sad little Midlander comment on what half a dozen or so have posted on Cornwall 24.The Nationalists are not treading water. Most won't even care about the visit by 'Republic'. You really do come up with utter rubbish Mr. Harvey."

You try to give the impression you are not one of the trolls from c24, but a nationalist just the same, so be it if it is true, you go on to say "Most won't even care about the visit by 'Republic'" so I take it you are in the know then? Would you like to disclose which part of the nationalists group you are associated with? Incidentally I am not a "Mr Harvey" and not from the "Midlands" that misunderstanding originated on c24 the forum you do not frequent, very strange to say the least. Not forgetting please which nationalists group are you associated with then?”

“I read Cornwall24 but don't post there. It's much more fun winding up trolls here. None is the answer. But if 'Republic' were of much interest to Cornish Nationalists, I should think that there would be an announcement by one of the organisations or parties. But none. Just Cornwall 24 chatter like the chatter on here, Mr Harvey. But it seems to animate you. Why don't you post on Cornwall 24? I am sure you would be warmly welcomed.”

“Re: PROGRESS!
by youngcornwall. » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:37 pm
"Your wrong there boy, I choose not to come on here, is that clear enough for you?"

Moderators Note:-
"youngcornwall." is correct that he was able to come here.
He was banned for 4 weeks some time ago, for his "anti Cornish views" if I remember, and chose not to post here again after his 4 weeks were up.”

“Youngcornwall, that's only half of the moderator's note you have quoted. It then goes on to permanently ban you. It's there for all to see!

Also, you have sidestepped my question to you about how much time you have spent in Cornwall during the past 20 years.”

“As long as things are clear and out in the open everyone should be happy, I can go along with that, no problems with me. Sidestepped nothing, I could have easily told you to mind your own business, but I didn't, be grateful Mike.”

“by KernowGBSunday, July 15 2012, 11:23AM
Since you and your friends seem intent on using the term "Nats", without any qualification as to what that means, or to whom that term applies, then your little group"

These are not really "friends" are they! "your little group" You got that wrong also, there is no "group"

We all know what is meant when using the term "Nats"

Kernowgb the problem is having an opinion and thinking that because it is your opinion, you must be correct. And that everyone who disagrees is obviously a useless ******, that seems to describe you, try opening your mind up and attempt to understand how others may view and how and why they would vote...

With being so busy there is not much time to reply, but it is the case that D of C is bigger than just Cornwall and Republic believe being born into a privileged life is not acceptable and so will use the democratic process to attempt to change this, the Nats aren't really able to question this as it would show them to be not very democratic add what others have written here and we see the picture. Adding the fact the Nats have no leader, no policies etc is only asking the question, WHY NOT?”

“KernowGB I was not aware that any of my messages were mixed as you put it.

I merely express opinions which are mine and mine alone it is for others to decide whether they agree with me or not.

I accept that there was a slaughter of Cornish people around the time of the Prayerbook Rebellion and that trhereafter Cornish history was spun to reflect the English side of the story as well as eventually killing off the Cornish language.

Actually I was very fortunate that at junior school my peer group were taught by a staunch old Perraner who told it like it was which made a great impression on me lasting til this day, all my adult life I have seen what I hold dear chipped away at by those who would rather we all quietly accept that we are English and be done with it.

That in my books subtle as it may be is cultural genocide but I will have none of it, instead I obseve and give my opinion on what matters I feel qualified to comment on, I am non political and non denominational with a mind of my own.

I have seen so many attempts at organising Cornish people but they have usually ended in strife and recriminations, perhaps the nearest thing to my ideal was Cornish Solidarity which actually held together long enough to acheive some objectives before collapsing in disarray following the untimely death of Alan Prisk.

In my opinion there are still too many who harp on about the past and how hard done by we have been be that as it may you cannot live in the past, of which many of us are nonetheless acutely aware, my concern as a Cornish businessman is in the present as the means of securing Cornwalls undoubtedly bright future for Cornish people who wake up and smell the coffee.

There is also a dour bitter element who seem to hate success who pick on the likes of Stein and Smit but they have suceeded where the Cornish do not seem to have been in the same race, they have been criticised for accessing European funding but the money has been invested within Cornwall so there has to be a ripple effect of some kind, but credit where credit is due they excel at what they do.

They may trade in a little BS at times but they get things done, why do the Cornish lag behind?

I contend that Cornwall must become a unique brand that promotes itself as a can do place where good things are made to happen but that involves Cornish people getting off their butts getting involved and ceasing to moan or else as in the past others from elsewhere will sneak in the back door and steal our thunder before we even start.

If Mebyon Kernow want my vote they must sharpen their act, articulate clear policies that ordinary people can buy into and field credible eloectable candidates, given the present failure and disarray of the mainstream political parties this is actually doable, why dont they just get on and do it the window of opportunity is opening.

If or when this ever happens we may just get the unity of common purpose to tackle and resolve vexatious issues that currently may be better left alone.”

“Youngcornwall, you are having a few Pinnochio moments I think. You puposely misled readers with that quote from C24: you were banned permanently and tried to cover it up; it's there for everyone to see. Also, I don't think you have been in Cornwall for a very long time, so how can you prophesize about any of the things that affect Cornwall with any authority? I can mind my own business very easily if you stop telling tales.”

“Well said, Poldice.

Anyone running a business, anywhere, has to confront the, (sometimes harsh), realities of day-to-day life.
People need jobs, financial security, decent homes and a safe environment for their children to grow up in.
People also need truth, justice and clarity of thought from politicians and those with the power to change lives for the better.
Freedom of speech is a basic right and individual views and opinions should not be ignored.

KernowGB and his friends have every right to express their views, and ,if they feel really strongly about those opinions and views, should test the validity of their "truths" in the public arena, at the ballot-box.

They fact that they never have is telling, in my opinion.”

“by ebxdlb_
"try opening your mind up and attempt to understand how others may view and how and why they would vote."

Very good advise ebxdlb, this is something they cannot seem to comprehend, so stuck in their own little mindsets, everyone is out of step but them, the truth is, where is it getting them? No further than a few posters on a dysfunctional message board that resort to trolling.”

“· by ebxdlb_ - Sunday, July 15 2012, 7:36PM

----------------------------------
"by KernowGBSunday, July 15 2012, 11:23AM
Since you and your friends seem intent on using the term "Nats", without any qualification as to what that means, or to whom that term applies, then your little group"
----------------------------------

These are not really "friends" are they! "your little group" You got that wrong also, there is no "group"
--------------------------------------------------------------

They are, and it is, in a virtual sense, because you all seem to have the same focus.


==========
· by ebxdlb_ - Sunday, July 15 2012, 7:36PM

We all know what is meant when using the term "Nats"
--------------------------------------------------------------

Then why not enlighten all of us?


==========
· by ebxdlb_ - Sunday, July 15 2012, 7:36PM

Kernowgb the problem is having an opinion and thinking that because it is your opinion, you must be correct. And that everyone who disagrees is obviously a useless ******, that seems to describe you, try opening your mind up and attempt to understand how others may view and how and why they would vote...
--------------------------------------------------------------

If you think about it, you might come to realise that that is quite an illogical assertion to make and that it applies more specifically to those that blindly stick to defending the status quo and engage in a process of 'denial' and avoid responding specifically to point being made that challenge that denial. As to voting patterns, it all comes down to having the right information upon which to base choices. By defending the status quo, it is clear that you prefer to manipulate people's choices for the wrong reasons. May I suggest that it is you, and yours, that need to open their minds?


==========
· by ebxdlb_ - Sunday, July 15 2012, 7:36PM

With being so busy there is not much time to reply, but it is the case that D of C is bigger than just Cornwall and Republic believe being born into a privileged life is not acceptable and so will use the democratic process to attempt to change this, the Nats aren't really able to question this as it would show them to be not very democratic add what others have written here and we see the picture. Adding the fact the Nats have no leader, no policies etc is only asking the question, WHY NOT?"
--------------------------------------------------------------
What a shame that you are "too busy" to respond to my points. Perhaps you might find the time to explain what you mean by "D of C" – 'Duke' or "Duchy"? The former is definitely "bigger than Cornwall", but, if you mean the latter, then it equates precisely to Cornwall – as I mentioned in my post (one of the points that you have ignored!)

I have no problem with what 'Republic' believe, but you persist in using that weasel word "democratic" and suggest that your mysterious "Nats" would seem to be undemocratic if they challenged it. Here, again, you deliberately fail to pick-up on one of my points that you have ignored about having "all of the truth brought into the public domain". Does that make you, and yours, undemocratic?

You then seek refuge in a statement, "add what others have written here and we see the picture". That is pure gibberish, given that you have not even substantiated what you have previously asserted. It is pure fanciful speculation.

You close all that with your obvious obsession about "Nats", that you refuse to define, but who you, and yours, 'all know'. If you knew, then the answer to your obsession(s) would be obvious.”

“· @Poldice (re Sunday, July 15 2012, 9:11PM)

Please do not think that I was questioning your "Cornishness", which has never been in doubt. I was rather surprised by what I felt was the degree of negativity that seemed to be contained in your post that I responded to. In particular relating to the points that I raised in my post in seeking clarification. It just felt like a negativity that I would associate more with certain EIS Trolls, with their shallow attempts at stigma-creation.

Whilst agreeing, in principle, with your latest post, I do not believe that we should shirk, or shrink, from raising, what you refer to as "vexatious issues", because Cornish politics is not about an either/or philosophy. It is about a broad approach in "Cornish awareness-creation" in opposition to externally driven anti-Cornish stigma-creation by those who wish us to dwell in the mire of an English status quo which culpably is a process of Cornish Genocide.

If it is the politics that you believe are failing us, then that is not, in my opinion, simply down to those that you ascribe it to in your post above, but is the responsibility of politics & politicians in general, over many, many decades. The only way to raise the bar is to raise the political status of Cornwall and, consequentially, Cornish political aspirations. This means confronting the "vexatious issues" head-on and removing the processes of Cornish Genocide that are deliberately holding us back. There is no democratic process, for the Cornish, under the present arrangement. We have to raise the burden of discontent!

You seek to draw a parallel with the situation in Norther Ireland, but you conveniently – perhaps? – ignore what had gone before. There is no parallel until we show that we are willing to fight for our Rights. We have been doing that for the past 100 plus years, in the only way that a nation of our size can do and which has brought us to where we are now. That is in no way a failure. The past 60 years had considerably increased the challenges in an unprecedented way, but we have still made progress.

Please reflect upon the fact that the current discussions over the Duchy did not just materialise out of thin air, but have been an intrinsic part of the Cornish Rights awareness activities.”

“KernowGB asks for a definition of 'Nats'. ie: Nationalists.
There are a number of definitions, but I think the one most commonly used is: (having been previously been used by both JFK and Churchill in their written works; although it probably originated from the pen of G K Chesterton)
"Nationalism is the belief; that your place is far superior, or fundamentally superior in some unidetifiable manner, than everyone else's, and that people who don't feel this way about it are somehow victimising you".
I find this definition helps when attempting to understand the various comments made on this Forum by self confessed Cornish Nationalists.”

“@Taxman100 (re Tuesday, July 17 2012, 11:58AM)

An interesting definition as you say 'amongst many', but hardly an unbiased one is it from a couple of modern history's imperial heavyweights?

Considering that nationalism is usually a phenomenon that seeks to escape from the clutches of imperialistic suppression or oppression, does it meet the general criteria that is implied by ebxdlb_ ?

==========
· by ebxdlb_ - Sunday, July 15 2012, 7:36PM

We all know what is meant when using the term "Nats"
--------------------------------------------------------------”

“Taxman100 substitute the word luckier for superior and I think you may be on the right track, I regard superiority as a particularly English flaw in the same light as luckier is a particularly Cornish advantage.

But luck is only an advantage if it is recognised, appreciated, siezed with both hands and used to advantage, therin lies the knack, failure to discover this gift will only lead into the dark shadow of introspection, self loathing and bitterness.

Who can dispute that the Cornish are born lucky when they are born into a land of such bounteous beauty, whether on the soil we walk or in the sea that surrounds us, both so full of inspirational opportunity if we only take the trouble to look.”

“I think "Nats",(in the context I imagine the word to mean), are those who seem to imagine that anyone critacal of their views and ideas can be classed as "English imperialists",(whatever that means in this day and age?)

These "Nats" loath tourism and see tourists as "invaders",(although some "Nats" grow rich on the money these "ants" spend).”

“"Critical"
Sorry!”

“Therein lies the rub, the English are imperialists, Cornwall may have the distinction of being the oldest colony but at various times in history the English have invaded and or colonised a huge chunk of the world.

Thanks to Blairs blind obediance to Bush we have even managed to invade both Iraq and Afghanistan on two occasions each highly unsuccessfully and currently at a huge cost to a truly admirable professional British Army.

The same mentality is alive and well in English sport both the national football and rugby teams seem to think they have won before they start, fans behaviour abroad often leaves a lot to be desired so the trait is probably in the English genes.

Not all Cornish Nationalists loath tourists but I certainly loath that peculiarly English air of supercilious condecending superiority that the worst tiny minority of them are so accomplished at.”

“"lol with only "questions" KernowGB

I would suggest your blind loyalty to question almost anything proves my argument. (See what I did there?)

____________________________________________________________

At 0.51 in this video someone shouts kernow, then at 1.04 Graham Smith start speaking about Cornwall and duchy, he is on a mission, will make any impact on the Nats?

http://tinyurl.com/d994pmf”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Tuesday, July 17 2012, 2:11PM)

Why do you persistently fail to respond directly to posts? Your latest post is just so much more gibberish (like a telephone msg with a bad connection). If anyone can interpret what it is supposed to mean, or say, then please have a go.”

“Most people here can see the question you ask about the "Nats" is just attempt to side track a subject or point or question being made but the answer you seek has already been addressed by others so you have enough information to understand what we mean, by "Nats" Having now answered you I suspect it will more of the same questions.

How about some view on video, "Republic' are coming to Cornwall and asking for support to remove the Duke/Duchy of Cornwall, are you in support of this will it weaken case for the Cornish in anyway? They want to rid the Duke/Duchy of Cornwall of power and hand this all back to the people, is that OK? What others think?”

“"@Slimslad (re Tuesday, July 17 2012, 1:01PM)

So you are not sure and you are only imagining it. No surprises there, then!

The reason that you may be categorised as "English Imperialist", although more correctly that should be categorised as 'fully paid-up members of the English Imperial State (EIS), is because having such closed minds you can only defend a status quo which illegally places Cornwall in England and the erroneous conclusion that this makes the Cornish people 'English'.

You exist in a complete state of 'denial' about what is presented as legitimate 'Cornish' argument, with evidence, that proves your blind loyalty to the English Imperial Hegemony to be flawed, whilst simultaneously seeking to 'denigrate' the 'Cornish' argument without submitting any supportive evidence to prove that your argument has any legitimacy. You clearly post from an English Imperialistic standpoint, but invariably without any meaningful narrative to place your opinions into any meaningful context.

ebxdlb_ has the temerity to accuse me of having a closed mind, yet in his post above he contradicts himself with the observation that I have the "blind loyalty to question almost anything". In truth, isn't that an indication of an 'open mind'? I generally do not accept 'anything' unless, and until, I have given it some very serious thought. A lot of the time, especially when it comes to Cornish Rights and Cornish Genocide, I have been thinking seriously about it for more than 50 years.

Interesting that you make an unsubstantiated comment about 'ALL nats loathing tourism and how they view tourists' yet you concede that only "some" may profit from tourism money. Perhaps you will find 'some' time to prove any, or all of that?”

“If you feel that I have side-tracked a subject, or point, then please have some integrity and point out precisely what & where that relates to so that others can see that it is not just some more cheap rhetorical chicanery, on your part, to stigmatise.

I have asked YOU to give YOUR definition of NATS, which you imply is a generally held belief of others. Two posters have have come back with two entirely different 'definitions'. YOU made the comment so YOU please give the definitive definition.

Regarding your comment on 'REPUBLIC'. Please see my posting at (Monday, July 16 2012, 9:14PM) in 'reply' to your post, which gives my opinion. It will not go unnoticed that you have now extended your point in that regard. Is that because you wish to avoid responding, yet again, to any of my points? Have you ever responded to any of them?

I take it for granted that you also have no intention of clarifying your strange post at (Tuesday, July 17 2012, 2:11PM)!”

“What the "Nats" do is roll out their long-winded spokesperson, who then classes all those who disagree as 'fully paid-up members of the English Imperial State (EIS).

Who have to "take the blame" for the "colonization " of Cornwall and the continued " cultural genocide" of Cornwall's language and customs.

These opinions, of course, are only held by the tiniest minority of an already tiny minority of extreme "Nats",(numbered on the fingers of one hand).”

“unfortunately cornwall seems to be filled with a lot of non indigenous people who want to let england rule the roost has it has for centuries against the cornish peoples wishes, as they do with many other parts of the world. incidentally i do not belong to any political party or ever have been but i am a proud cornishman a would like to see fair play. kernow bys vykken!”

“@Slimslad (re Tuesday, July 17 2012, 5:09PM)

Whose definition of "Nats" are we using this time?

For your information the EIS only applies to those who fulfil the stated definition given above. Anyone that "disagrees", but who submit some legitimate supportive evidence to substantiate what they say, are one of those rare breed that seem, at least in a superficial way, willing to discuss/debate, until proven otherwise.

Insofar as such people are seen to be unwilling to discuss/debate in an intelligent way, then, yes, they are definitiely, by choice, willingly a part of the ongoing problem of Cornish Genocide.

Since they are 'evidence-based', they are more than simply "opinions". Therefore, the fact that you consider this to be a "tiny minority of extreme "Nats" has absolutely no relevance.

Your additional qualification of 'extreme' added to the term "Nats" is noted. As with a previous added qualification of 'real' used elsewhere, can we expect some further definition of "Nats" so that we are all aware of what, and who, you are talking about and the significance of the additional epithet?

I hope that that was long-winded enough for you?”

“"For your information the EIS only applies to those who fulfil the stated definition given above.2

The "stated definition" by whom?

"Since they are 'evidence-based', they are more than simply "opinions".

The "evidence" coming from whom?

"Your additional qualification of 'extreme' added to the term "Nats" is noted."

"Noted"? Recorded for future use?

Not as long-winded as usual.

Perhaps you are learning that quantity does not always mean quality.”

“But KernowGB you haven't given us a view on the "Republic' video question. Are you hiding something?

They want to rid the Duke/Duchy of Cornwall of power and hand this all back to the people, is that OK? Are you in support of this? Will it weaken the case for that Cornish Genocide problem of yours and your mates in anyway? What impact could this have on the governance of Cornwall?

Will the Cornish Movement embrace "Republic' or simple reject them? I hear in that video someone shout Kernow it seems some have already welcomed them with open arms.

As for this answer you posted before "I have no problem with what 'Republic' believe," that seems like a light answer but if you are happy and if that's is all you want to say on the subject, but just to clear up any misunderstandings, Is that it?”

“Republic have "across-the-board support" politically, especially.

Which is bound to make those who hold extreme nationalist views a tad disgruntled.”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Tuesday, July 17 2012, 7:16PM)

Please apply 'joined-up' thinking to these posts above at (Sunday, July 15 2012, 11:23AM) & (Monday, July 16 2012, 9:14PM) This also applies to your flawed-truth-seeker-friends.

Also of relevance is this post at (by KernowGB - Wednesday, June 13 2012, 5:30PM)

on this thread

http://tinyurl.com/d62sqf7

which shows how worried you all seem to be over this issue, because legitimate posts, which gave a response to similar questions, have been removed. As I have already pointed out: what I have stated has been supported by evidence-based information to which none of you have either commented on nor offered any legitimate alternative to rebut it. Particularly here:

http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4

You all seem to get a little obsessed with certain factors that are essentially irrelevant. If you wish to know what the Cornish Movement thinks, then once again you must do the leg work yourselves and ask it directly.

I feel that you have now been given enough rope and that it is about time that you, and your friends, start responding to the many points and commentary that I, and others, have provided (over many months), but which you have all chosen to ignore, as you attempt to divert the topics away from their presumed reason for initiation.

@Slimslad: Do not ring us, we certainly will not ring you! All your questions have already been answered, but please do brush up on comprehension of the written word and evidence!”

“kernow gb you are ever so boring.”

“"@Slimslad: Do not ring us, we certainly will not ring you!"

Love the "us" and the "we".

Makes it all sound organized.”

“@H_Trevorrow (re Wednesday, July 18 2012, 2:23AM)

Isn't that just another indication of a closed-mind over what you are unable to find an intelligent response to? Cognitive Dissonance Rule! Not OK!


====================
@Slimslad (re Wednesday, July 18 2012, 7:35AM)

You had better believe it!

---------------------------------------------
"A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a nation's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again."
~ George Bernard Shaw
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"When a nation goes down, or a society perishes, one condition may always be found; they forgot where they came from. They lost sight of what had brought them along. "
Carl Sandburg
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"Nations without a past are contradictions in terms. What makes a nation is the past, what justifies one nation against others is the past, and historians are the people who produce it."
Eric Hobsbawm
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"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. "
Winston Churchill
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"We the People will find the truth and expose it and we may die doing so but the the truth cannot be hidden forever, the devil and his kind have been after me since the begining of time no doubt, but I am not afraid anymore the only thing to fear is fear itself. Seek and you shall find, Once we know the truth if we seek the solution, we will find it, we will win the war"
---------------------------------------------
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"Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot uneducate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore. We have seen the future, and the future is ours."
Cesar Chavez
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First, acts of cultural genocide—conduct violating what the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) referred to as the "very foundation of the group"—tend to establish the genocidist's specific intent to destroy the protected group.
Carnegie Institute

Namely - illegally denying, and suppressing, the Duchy Status and replacing this with status of administrative 'English' county (sic) plus airbrushing Cornish distinction from maps - for starters!
---------------------------------------------
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Cultural genocide ultimately was excluded from the final Convention, except for a limited prohibition on the forcible transfer of a group's children. The drafters acknowledged that the removal of children was physically and biologically destructive but further recognized that indoctrinating children into the customs,language, and values of a foreign group was "tantamount to the destruction of the [child's] group, whose future depended on that next generation."
Carnegie Institute
---------------------------------------------”

“"Cultural genocide ultimately was excluded from the final Convention, except for a limited prohibition on the forcible transfer of a group's children."

So, when have Cornish children been forcibly transferred?”

“@Slimslad (re Thursday, July 19 2012, 4:18PM)

I can tell that you have not yet cracked the 'comprehension' aspect of debate and discussion, with your 'selective reading' skills and closed mind preventing you from seeing the bigger picture.

----------------------------------------------
"but further recognized that indoctrinating children into the customs,language, and values of a foreign group was "tantamount to the destruction of the [child's] group, whose future depended on that next generation."
-----------------------------------------------

Not forgetting, of course, the observation of the ICTY, or other comment made in the Carnegie Institute article linked to on the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread.

http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4

To cut to the chase: Devalue, and lie, about the constitution, control the process, and teach the children 'English-based' academic subjects and you have a seemingly inexorable process of Cornish Genocide, complemented by other associated actions - especially 'English' symbolism and random (sic) acts of territorial fragmentation. Not forgetting, also, a centuries long Imperial hegemonic conflation of Britain/British and England/English (q.v. This Sceptred Isle).

Where have you, and your friends ever gained your flawed perceptions from? A bunch of corrupt, and/or corrupted, Imperial sources! That, however is changing! History has been around for a long time. It is not something that just retrospectively moves backwards from 2012, as the EIS would like us to believe.”

“""Cultural genocide ultimately was excluded from the final Convention, except for a limited prohibition on the forcible transfer of a group's children."

Which was included.

"but further recognized that indoctrinating children into the customs,language, and values of a foreign group was "tantamount to the destruction of the [child's] group, whose future depended on that next generation."

Which wasn't included.

"I can tell that you have not yet cracked the 'comprehension' aspect of debate and discussion, with your 'selective reading' skills and closed mind preventing you from seeing the bigger picture."

Smoke and mirrors, Mr P.


Your selective "truth"”

“Cornish truth, better than Anglo lies any day! Scumbag! Pull on your anorak and go count the list of ships in your fast dying Navy!”

“Nice darts Slimslad.”

“@H_Trevorrow (re Thursday, July 19 2012, 10:03PM)

"Nice darts Slimslad"? You say!

Can you explain what all that means in relationship to what is clearly yet another outstanding example of failed comprehension?
---------------------------------------------------

========
@Slimslad (re Thursday, July 19 2012, 9:25PM)

You have failed to comment in context. I did recommend that you view it within the broader examination contained within the Carnegie Council article, namely: - http://tinyurl.com/bm9qvlz

---------------------------------------------------
Not forgetting, of course, the observation of the ICTY, or other comment made in the Carnegie Institute article linked to on the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread.
---------------------------------------------------

So where are your presumed "smoke and mirrors" supposed to manifest themselves in your 'selective reading'? (my apologies for incorrectly naming the Carnegie Council as 'Institute)

I would also commend to you a revisit to the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread and check out the post (by KernowGB - Tuesday, April 17 2012, 8:56PM) - http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 - for a re-appraisal of the real purpose behind a genuine 'universal' definition of Genocide, rather than the 'narrow flawed' 1948 UN Definition, and how this is being realised in a less self-centred modern world - no longer in denial over its realities, causes and resolutions.

This equally applies to 'Cornish Genocide' as it does for anywhere else, and has to be factored into everything that now interacts upon Cornwall and the Cornish people, whether social, political, cultural, constitutional or any other "-al".”

“empty barrels make the most noise tgg ...lol.”

“narrow flawed' 1948 UN Definition?

Your quotes.

Your quote.”

“Such old history, so long ago. Would it not be the an idea to ask why so few sign up to the idea or are they also feeling the effects of "Cognitive dissonance" not everyone suffers from "Cognitive dissonance" or are you saying it is only 829 that are OK.

And as for "nationalism" in its best forms it is no more than a celebration of a people but all to often it amounts to violence and hate, I'd rather live amongst everyone and anyone and those who will read that "Cornish Genocide" thread will read the attempt at setting a hate agenda by yourself, Setting one against another, we should reject this.

As for what is meant by the term "Nats" in context of Cornish "Nats"

http://tinyurl.com/cdcch7o

This should clear it up and clear up a question which most people do not need to ask,”

“@H_Trevorrow (re Friday, July 20 2012, 12:47AM) and @Slimslad (Friday, July 20 2012, 10:00AM)

Still got nothing intelligent to say from either of you we see! Not quite the dynamic duo, are you?

Trevorrow is obviously completely out of his depth and proves the 'exception' to his own rather snide empty about barrels making "the most" noise quip.

Slimslad cannot even explain his own posts, or directly respond to my comments, so that people can see the absolute rubbish that he regularly trots out. Safer for him that way, I suppose?

Why do you both bother?
---------------------------------------------------

=========
by ebxdlb_ (re Friday, July 20 2012, 10:25AM)

History is still history! Still trying to crack that 'sign-up' nut? You have been advised a number of times how to resolve that one. I have also commented previously on how Cognitive Dissonance (ie. 'group think') works. I have no interest in your other obsession about 'online petitions', because such things need to be driven by personal effort - as with the Assembly petition. The smaller the community, the more something has to be managed - not rocket science.

Your take on 'nationalism is also a bit skewed, because you have a particular agenda to follow. It is clear that you and others are the ones seeking to introduce some incitement to 'hate', because you have neither the wit nor integrity to follow a proper intelligent debate over what is being provided as evidence.

If you believe that the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread --- http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 --- is as you have described it in your post, then I will challenge you, again, to prove that assertion for all to see. I would also point to the opening two weeks of posts and their lack of objectivity and the snide comments following my posting real evidence and discussion from the 26th March onward and the total lack of engagement.

The wiki article you link to (on Cornish Nationalism) needs updating, but it does not answer your original comment ("everyone knows") that brought forward responses to prove your comment to be incorrect. Neither do you attempt to identify and explain where and when your 'extremes' come into play and where, in the latter case, it would take on an entirely different form and name. There is a Great State Chauvinism that seeks to devalue the concept of 'nationalism' by applying qualifying epithets such as 'minor' or 'petty', but in essence it only really means the first of your alternatives. Because the Imperial States have hijacked the term 'Nation' (sounds nicer!), the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) are looking to replace the original concept of 'nation' as "cultural nation".

My original question to you, asking for your definitive explanation of what you, and others, termed "Nats", was asked from the viewpoint that you were applying an unsubstantiated generic term to an unidentified group for which you had no knowledge of whether they were in fact 'nationalists' or not - nor could you! That discrepancy still pertains.

The "Genocide" thread was a seriously flawed and cynical attempt to rubbish the concept of Cornish Genocide, but as they found out it is a deadly serious subject that they could not handle. So! They walked away from it - WITHOUT DEBATE!”

“"The "Genocide" thread was a seriously flawed and cynical attempt to rubbish the concept of Cornish Genocide"

The "concept of Cornish Genocide" was invented by "KernowGB".

Is is referred to only by "KernowGB".

Has no support under any law, anywhere.
Ever.”

“@Slimslad (re Friday, July 20 2012, 4:18PM)

More wishful thinking!

1 - True!
2 - Not True! But irrelevant!
3 - Not True!
4 - Not True!
5 - Not True!

Now do your research! Including a thorough read through of that "cynical thread" that was the only point you had correct. That was only because I gave you the answer!”

“KernowGB , lets take "Cornish nationalism" why can't you or why don't you just tell everyone what it is rather than post this which is no more than just a going nowhere and no point attack, rather than giving us some information about "Cornish nationalism"

KenowGB "Your take on 'nationalism is also a bit skewed, because you have a particular agenda to follow. It is clear that you and others are the ones seeking to introduce some incitement to 'hate', because you have neither the wit nor integrity to follow a proper intelligent debate over what is being provided as evidence."

---------

It clear to nearly everyone that "Cornish nationalism" has many different sides, from say people wishing to promote an idea of what it should be to be Cornish in Cornwall, it also includes Cultural, social and political ideas, in areas such education, pride and representation of a Cornish people/nation etc. But everyone knows this and yet you still question it, "Cornish nationalism" is up to the people not me or you the people,and it has many sides, what is your take on it?

No one could accuse you of being wrong about your own idea because you never give a version of what "Cornish nationalism" is in fact you hardly ever engage in debate when someone asks a question you attack only and the only other time you seem to open up is to praise one of your "friends"

"KernowGB, If you believe that the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?"

"Truth?" has little to do with it. The point is who supports this long gone idea? No one but you. Why should they? even if it is the case, I think you take the wrong road about educating the world about your idea, truth or not!

KernowGB, The "Genocide" thread was a seriously flawed and cynical attempt to rubbish the concept of Cornish Genocide, but as they found out it is a deadly serious subject that they could not handle. So! They walked away from it - WITHOUT DEBATE!"

Yes we can all read how you walk away from questions/debate on the very subject like you did regarding those "Republic' questions.

But the biggest problems is the way you present yourself and way you attack people, it helps you not, maybe it is the reason no else has taken up the "Cornish Genocide" truth??? I hate to think there could more reasons why no other public body in the whole wide world has ever mentioned or taken the problem.

But I think number one problem is the amount of nutters that post pro Cornish-anti English rubbish, as these people rope you in with themselves making you look like real idiot!

But we have some fun and don't take it seriously, but Cornwall doesn't belong to a long gone people it is in the hands of the Now People, we come from all over the world and we are the people of the UK. lol”

“Here is my "research".

http://tinyurl.com/dyymmhl”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Friday, July 20 2012, 6:48PM)

That is just too bizarre to treat with anything but contempt. We must leave it there for the intelligence of others to see who is saying and doing what.
---------------------------------------------------------

============
@Slimslad (re Friday, July 20 2012, 7:23PM)

That is not research, nor is it what I recommended
-----------------------------------------------------------”

“by KernowGBFriday, July 20 2012, 7:41PM
"@ebxdlb_ (re Friday, July 20 2012, 6:48PM)

That is just too bizarre to treat with anything but contempt. We must leave it there for the intelligence of others to see who is saying and doing what."

Yea, agreed, but no other public body in the whole wide world has ever mentioned or taken the problem the "Cornish Genocide" seriously and you don't go there in any deal on that point when asked you ran a away from it, "bizarre" for someone who has so much to say on the very subject, but little to say on this point/question/debate... cheers for nothing”

“You will not find anything in Google Slim, it's all in his head. For years KernowGB has gone unchallenged on the closed shop forum, in fact they still hold him in very high esteem on there (well there isn't much else) nevertheless be a little gentle with him, this is all new for him having to answer challenging questions, do not be surprised if you do not get a straightforward reply, the truth is, he doesn't have the answer.”

“I would find it difficult if I had a theory "built on sand".

I imagine the chap who got the decimal point in the wrong place, when it came to the advantages of spinach.

A "Popeye" moment.”

“To be gentle, the "English" as a monarchy, a government, a "power", have been the perpetrators of some vicious attacks on their "own" and others.

They have invaded, raped and pillaged over many centuries.

They have displaced folk from their lands and property.

They have forced folk to accept language, religion, and customs and traditions not their own.

They cannot plead anything but guilty.”

“But not anymore.

And not in Cornwall.”

“@youngcornwall (re Friday, July 20 2012, 8:30PM)

I can only repeat my same comment to you yc that ebxdlb_ quoted and, of course reiterate it again to ebxdlb_ since the second part of his second paragraph was quite unintelligible.

I have often enquired why you are all so fascinated by something that you insist does not exist - but, as yet, no response. :-)

Challenging questions??? Delusional! That requires knowledge, not 'denial', 'denigration' and 'diversions', or pathetic attempts at role reversal.

--------------------------------------------------------------
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."
- Winston Churchill
---------------------------------------------------------------”

“But KernowGB you would have written to anyone and everyone regarding this "Cornish Genocide". I can't see after reading much of your long winded posts on the subject that would not have happened, human rights groups would have been contacted and I am betting you contacted the UN, so why hasn't any of these organisations taken up or even mentioned the "Cornish Genocide" and they would have replied to you. What did they say in their reply's? Or are you now going to tell us you haven't even contacted anyone just posted this idea on a web news forum? Come what do they think about the "Cornish Genocide" ?

If you don't open up on this simple question this could now be the case of:

The one who accuses others of keeping hold of truth is now the one who hold back the truth...”

“oops that last should have read,

"The one who accuses others of keeping hold of truth is now the one who hold's back the truth..."”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Friday, July 20 2012, 10:43PM & Friday, July 20 2012, 10:38PM)

I could not resist popping back in to say that your "oops" still doesn't make sense. Neither, reading between the lines, could it ever be correct. The first group would not recognise 'truth' if it were to jump out and bite them on the nose. They are not keeping 'hold of truth', they simply 'deny' it', 'denigrate it', attempt to 'divert it' and indulge in 'stigma-creation'. They are too busy feeding their own obsessions with groupthink and not dealing with 'the evidence' nor providing any of their own.

To the the second part: Apart from the fact that there is no apostrophe in "holds", it is not a case of "holds back the truth", because most, if not all, points have (with intelligent reading) been responded to somewhere or other within this message board over the past four months. That is, Insofar as such answers would be considered relevant to any discussion on a public forum on a topic you are all so convinced does not exist that you all simply wish to waste time on obsessing over it in such a negative and prejudicial manner.

For my part, I am more than happy with the actions that I have personally taken.

When checking back through your posts, do not forget the other permutations of your user name (ebxdlpk; ebxdlpkd).”

“Wasting your time ebxdlb_

There will be no discussion about contact with the U.N.”

“It is so sad that KernowGB has little to say but plenty of accusations of "your the problem" if it is the case of England taking over Cornwall and having a "Cornish Genocide" then at least either answer the questions put to you or explain why you can't answer them. We want to know don't we?

Your not telling us we can't have our questions answered are you... there are some pretty big accusations being spread by you KernowGB, we'd like to know some more about who supports you and who doesn't!”

“Did you spot the clue in my posting? :-)

"(with intelligent reading)"

http://tinyurl.com/72um2nk

http://tinyurl.com/yarfq35”

“First sentence.

"We looked previously at some ways to appear smarter and look more intelligent. In this post I want to talk about ways to actually become smarter."

It doesn't get better. LOL”

“KernowGB,

You have stated a number of times the "Cornish Genocide" is down to England and attacks on the Cornish national border and the state lying etc and we the people don't accept this because of Cognitive dissonance etc

I ask you again. Have you written to the UN or any other human rights groups about this Genocide? And if yes, can we see the reply/replies?”

“@Slimslad (re Monday, July 23 2012, 7:28AM)

No, not "Selective Reading"....... "Intelligent reading"!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


==========
@ebxdlb_ (re Monday, July 23 2012, 9:32AM)

Have I? Where?

Please do not forget to include date/timestamps if/when appropriate (and thread topic).

You have already had my final response, and advice, regarding the 2nd part of your post.”

“by KernowGBThursday, March 29 2012, 5:57PM
"The consistent attacks on the integity of the Cornish national border with England."

"The State lies about the true constitutional position of Cornwall"

The link is here

http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4

Now I am only asking one more time:

Have you written to the UN or any other human rights groups about this Genocide? And if yes, can we see the reply/replies?”

“by ebxdlb_
"Have you written to the UN or any other human rights groups about this Genocide? And if yes, can we see the reply/replies?"

That would mean doing something positive.
How things are now it all adds to the intrigue and fancy world that helps to attract the tourists to the county, it used to be said if you talked silly like this you would end up up Bodmin.”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Monday, July 23 2012, 11:30AM)

What is it that you do not understand about date/timestamps?”

“by youngcornwallMonday, July 23 2012, 12:50PM

"That would mean doing something positive."

Yes youngcornwall isn't it odd how there is NO substances at all to KernowGB, nothing in the public domain just sound bites on a forum. I am seriously wasting my time asking him anything, at least we get to see the game he plays, that has to be something, hasn't it?

--------------

KernowGB I have not been rude just asking a simple question. The amount of times we have had this "No one will debate" rubbish and now I am empowering you to give the truth, you run away like a child unable to account for yourself.

Dick Cole said of these types "all puff and no pastry" we know it Dick, we see you what you mean now!

This sums up KernowGB

"The one who accuses others of keeping hold of truth is now the one who holds back the truth..."”

“@ebxdlb_ (re Monday, July 23 2012, 1:30PM)

Annoying isn't it, when you believe that you empower people and they just walk away from you. I know how you both must feel. Nevertheless, as the saying goes: "As you sow, so shall you reap!"

However, what I have said in my post at (Saturday, July 21 2012, 5:49PM & Sunday, July 22 2012, 9:52PM) says all that needs to be said.

If you are unable, or unwilling, to follow what is said in those posts, please do not seek to attribute your own personal failings onto me. I am the one that has provided the evidence to substantiate what I have said, whereas you and your friends have never done so. If you could, you would be unable to contain your enthusiasm to prove me wrong, instead of your pathetic attempts to shoot the messenger, rather than an "intelligent" examination/discusion of the message.”

“I am prepared to write to the UN KernowGB if you could let me have an address and give me permission to refer to your web site. The more we can flag what the E.I.S. are doing, the better.”

“A little prodding and pushing works wonders sometimes, if there is anything there to prod and push in the first place? We will see said the blind man.”

“by Chy_Howlek - Monday, July 23 2012, 3:24PM

"I am prepared to write to the UN KernowGB if you could let me have an address and give me permission to refer to your web site. The more we can flag what the E.I.S. are doing, the better."
----------------------------------------------------------

Chy_Howlek, that is a very kind offer, but I can assure you that such an action is completely unnecessary for the reasons that I gave in a post of mine on another thread. I would love to say when, and where, but I have no intention of playing the obvious time-wasting game of certain EIS Trolls, who have had four months to get up to speed on Cornish Genocide and argue THEIR CASE, which, of course, cannot be done!

As to permission to use ANY information within 'the website', I believe that it is stated that anyone may do so on the 'Welcome' page. Having just checked, I can confirm that that is the case. --- http://tinyurl.com/74sj42z”

“The short answer is.

No contact with the U.N.”

“by KernowGB
"I would love to say when, and where, but I have no intention of playing the obvious time-wasting game of certain EIS Trolls"

Isn't this defeatist attitude giving in to the so called "trolls"? Shouldn't you be aiming at getting your message out to a more wider audience, you know those just passing through who just stop for a little read, you never know who is going to read these threads.”

“The whole mention of the U.N. makes it appear that these views and opinions have gained some "official" credence.

This is not in fact the case.”

“@youngcornwall (re Monday, July 23 2012, 8:25PM)

Now isn't that a good idea!

"STOP THE EVIL CRIMES AGAINST THE CORNISH NATION"!

ROLL UP! ROLL UP! TO SEE THE EVIDENCE THAT PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF A UK CROWN & STATE-INSPIRED PROCESS OF CORNISH GENOCIDE, VISIT:

http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4

http://tinyurl.com/7dm2mxg

http://tinyurl.com/74sj42z

http://tinyurl.com/8a6urho

Other 'CORNISH' sites are also available!”

“Now that just leaves the U.N side of it? Regarding Chy_Howlek getting involved, after his comments on another thread I wouldn't ask him to see me across the road.”

“@youngcornwall (re Tuesday, July 24 2012, 12:24PM)

Still failing the "Intelligent Reading" test, I see!”

“All the "evidence" provided by one, or perhaps two, individuals.”

“@Slimslad (re Tuesday, July 24 2012, 1:22PM)

Your point?

No one is preventing you, or your friends, from providing your own "evidence" and "argument" to attempt to prove it wrong, is there? That is called a 'discussion', or 'debate'!

It is certainly something that is going to have to happen in any moves towards a Republic.”

“There is no need to "prove it wrong", because nobody has been wronged.

The only "evidence" that is needed is any contact with the U.N. to report "genocide" and acknowledgement of the same.

The stating of views and opinions by one individual are welcome, as part of freedom of speech.

But that is all they are,...

Individual views and opinions.”

“@Slimslad (re Tuesday, July 24 2012, 5:15PM)

Wow! That is great news! Now you, and your friends, can all untwist your knickers and relax in the knowledge that your 'denial' and 'complicity' in Cornish Genocide wll not be found out.

Not very swift of the block, 'though, to take so long in resolving your apparent conundrum, but that is the way of the world, I suppose?

Thinks........Just so that I can fully understand the significance of such a profound argument: Can you please explain exactly how -
---------------------------------------------
"The only "evidence" that is needed is any contact with the U.N. to report "genocide" and acknowledgement of the same."
----------------------------------------------

What I am trying to say. Not very well, I am afraid, is: Does CORNISH GENOCIDE ONLY EXIST if it has been 'reported', and 'acknowledged by the UN'? Perhaps you should have another read of Lemkin's definition of genocide here --- http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 --- at (Saturday, June 23 2012, 6:45PM).”

“Wow! That is great news! Now you, and your friends, can all untwist your knickers and relax in the knowledge that your 'denial' and 'complicity' in Cornish Genocide wll not be found out.

"Now you and your friends".?

You misunderstand.

I personally disagree with your views and opinions.

In my view, and my opinion, after reading your views and opinions and, after examining your facts,( as you see them), I disagree.

No great "conspiracy".”

“" Does CORNISH GENOCIDE ONLY EXIST if it has been 'reported', and 'acknowledged by the UN'"?

in a word?

Yes.”

“@Slimslad (re Tuesday, July 24 2012, 10:05PM)

I am sure that I do not "misunderstand", as you put it, because the fact that you "personally disagree with" my "views and opinions" has never been in doubt. You also said:

------------------------------------------
"In my view, and my opinion, after reading your views and opinions and, after examining your facts,( as you see them), I disagree.

No great "conspiracy"."
-------------------------------------------

What is missing is any details of your (what you only allege) "examination of the facts" and any counter argument to show that they have been examined. What, however, is more important is WHY you disagree with my facts and WHAT you offer as an alternative explanation derived from your STATED facts (as you see them). The fact that you all seem to be tarred with the same brush gives more credibility to a conspiracy than not!


============
@Slimslad (re Wednesday, July 25 2012, 7:55AM)

That is a completely illogical and irrational position to take. It will not go unnoticed that you failed to respond to my key point, which I repeat here in anticipation of some form of explanation, from you, to justify such a comment:

-------------------------------------------------------
KernowGB said: - Thinks........Just so that I can fully understand the significance of such a profound argument: Can you please explain exactly how -
---------------------------------------------
"The only "evidence" that is needed is any contact with the U.N. to report "genocide" and acknowledgement of the same."
----------------------------------------------

In the meantime CORNISH GENOCIDE is still being carried out!”

“"That is a completely illogical and irrational position to take. It will not go unnoticed that you failed to respond to my key point, which I repeat here in anticipation of some form of explanation, from you, to justify such a comment"

"It will not go unoticed"?

Pompous, Mr P.”

“@Slimslad (re Wednesday, July 25 2012, 2:32PM)

Pompous? Or simply another of my 'statements of FACT' (amongst the many!) that you just happen to think that you will disagree with and feel obliged to make one of your usual childish comments, because you have nothing else to offer?”

“'statements of FACT' ?

Your "statements", your opinions, your views.
Nothing on the statute books, no letters to the U.N.
No mention of the Cornish by Lemkin.”

“@Slimslad (re Wednesday, July 25 2012, 4:03PM)

YES! Statements of FACT!

Statements of FACT to which you have no intelligent response, other than to bluster your own particular brand of 'denial' with empty unsubstantiated rhetoric. No knowledge! No Discussion!

Your references to statute books and the UN is nothing more than you exhibiting a public display of ignorance. No knowledge! No Discussion!

Your reference to Lemkin clearly indicates that you have no idea of what it is that you believe yourself to be discussing. No knowledge! No Discussion!

What is even clearer is that you obviously have no real interest in what you believe to be the subject of this exchange. No knowledge! No Discussion!

Provide some evidence to justify your position and/or respond directly to my FACTS to show why they are, in your narrow opinion, incorrect. No knowledge! No Discussion!

It would have been expected, after four months, that you might have picked up something that you could present to show some progress.

STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE, NOW!”

“"Statements of FACT to which you have no intelligent response, other than to bluster your own particular brand of 'denial' with empty unsubstantiated rhetoric. No knowledge! No Discussion!

i have no" particular brand of denial"

Cornish Genocide Lemkin
http://tinyurl.com/cbs6pye

But there is the "evidence"
With your opinions, views and claims.
Nobody else.”

“No more, Mr P.

You have Lemkin.”

“IN THE MODERN IDIOM KERNOW IS A POWERFUL BRAND IN THE COMMON OWNERSHIP OF INDIVIDUAL CORNISH PEOPLE.

THOSE CORNISH WHO FAIL OR REFUSE TO RECOGNISE THIS POWERFUL FACT ARE THE REAL LOSERS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT OR WILL NOT MAKE THE QUANTUM LEAP TO CONTROLLING THEIR OWN INTERNAL AFFAIRS TO THE COLLECTIVE GREATER GOOD OF THE BRAND.

FORTUNATELY THIS BRAND OWNERSHIP IS BEYOND THE CLUTCHES OF THE D OF C BUT IT WILL NONETHELESS BY DINT OF ITS PARASITIC NATURE GAIN FROM THE COMMON BENEFIT.

THERIN LIES THE TRUTH PURE AND SIMPLE THE D OF C IS PARASITIC ONLY BENEFITTING ITSELF TO THE DETRIMENT OF EVERYTHING AROUND IT.”

“Wonder where the Duchy buys its essentials?”

“@Slimslad (re Wednesday, July 25 2012, 8:01PM)

Your "particular brand of denial" is to make unrelated comments (mostly meaningless) with obscure links (that you do not discuss) and not respond directly to posts (particularly from the person you are supposedly responding to) to, in order to 'deny', 'divert' and 'denigrate', rather than maintain a continuity of conversation that moves the discussion forward.

Your latest link brings up a number of websites together with your 'passing' comment, namely:
------------------------------------------------
-----"But there is the "evidence" : With your opinions, views and claims. : Nobody else."
-------------------------------------------------
Did you even look at/into any of the 35,900 returned results, before making such a silly comment?

for example, this one on page 1 (there are others)? --- http://tinyurl.com/cf55f94

============
@Slimslad (re Thursday, July 26 2012, 12:14AM)

Believe me, there is ever such a lot more, because we have not yet started any real intelligent discussion. You say that I "have Lemkin". I say that I have the 'moral-high-ground'. You jokers are not even open enough to honestly pursue 'the Truth' - just childish interjections!


===========
@poldice (re Thursday, July 26 2012, 8:47AM)

Spot on! Something else that people do not realise, is that HE has also hijacked a 'Unique Cornish' constitutional title for a 'private' commercial venture for HIS own personal benefit. Parasitic and MORE!”

“What essentials? do you mean supplies and services? EXPLAIN.

The Dof C's biggest activity is rent collecting so they dont need an awful lot of supplies and services to do that bearing in mind the D of C has always removed far more from Kernow than it is ever likely to put back, Kernow is merely a cash cow.”

“Dear Cap'n Poldice
by way of constructive critism may i offer that your {cornish nat } stance vis the duchy is the zenith of paradox.
In lay mans terms you are pro being a duchy but anti the duchy of cornwall.
Needs to be a simpler more digestible /logical message in order to succeed.
Itrust this message is recieved as intended, a positive contribution and hope you and yours are enjoying this very clemnt weather.”

“It was advertised, and never heard of again......

Typical of the bluff and bluster which passes for "nationalist" endeavours.”

“Big_Ger, from your comment one can only assume that either did not read the original post and links, or you are just out to stir.

The subject of this thread was a Republican endeavour.”