“The ons figures contradict your assertions re tourism.
In FACT the figures demonstrate the central importance of tourism to cornwall.
See ons documents for yourselves here
http://tinyurl.com/7h8ez7n
just download the pdf.

Those councillors who wish to tax tourism probably share your lack of commercial ac***en....lets be honest they are not the cream of cornwall are they?

An old investment addage is keep your winners and cut your losers.
Adios touristtax”

“A singular response to you. We shall not respond to any of your postings hereonin nor take heed of them. Indeed, we have just compiled a list of them and flagged them to this forums moderators as clear breaches of forum policy.”

“Take care there Trevorrow, keep a weather eye on your blood pressure in case you boil your water, you hyperactive troll, you seem to be fighting a war on several fronts without moving forward.”

“Let's hope these alleged Councillors stand up and state their support for a "tourism tax" then.

I'm willing to bet the won't, any councilor standing for a "Cornwall only" tax, one which would affect many of his or her constituents, would soon find themselves voted out of a job!”

“Touristatx nows own figures defeat him.
Like every argument put forward by the cornish movement its just vainglorious nonsensical unsustainable spin designed to appeal to people who are too lazy to check the facts.”

“From the ONS this sentance sums up the situation.
''At the sub-regional level we would expect
tourism to have a dominant role in driving output in some regions and Figure 8 shows this clearly in
relation to Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly and the Highlands and Islands of Scotland in particular.''

source
http://tinyurl.com/7h8ez7n”

“H_Trevorrow: you should take heed of your own advice and read the ONS reports thoroughly and in their entirety.

What the ONS figures show is that tourism industries form only 11% of TDGVA.

The particular quotation that you provide is a commentry on the fact that, in Cornwall, tourism is more dependent on 'tourists' than other parts of the UK.

If this sounds odd to you then you need to read all the backround in the ONS reports.

Simplistically, because the GDP of Cornwall is so low compared to other parts of the UK and Europe, the people who live here are less likely to use the tourism (mainly leisure and luxury) industry outputs.

thus .... tourism has a domnant role in driving output. This does not mean that it is crucial to the overall Cornish economy but simply that, in Cornwall, tourism is driven by tourists rather than a combination of tourists and people who live here.”

“Freedom of Information Request submitted to Cornwall Council today.

Please indicate how many people are employed in the tourist 'industry' in Cornwall?

How many of these people are employed in seasonal only positions?

How many of these people are permanently resident in Cornwall compared to people moving to Cornwall as seasonal residents to take up seasonal positions?”

“Thanks for that KernowForward and you are correct but we do not respond to any postings by 'H_Trevorrow' whilst gladly noting that many of his posts have been removed.”

“Thanks for that TouristTaxNow, but, while you may not respond to H_Trevorrow, I reserve the right to do so.

On the subject of a Tourist Tax, what would be the objective(s) of such a tax in the view of your geoup?”

“In the U.K. overall, employment, by percentage:
agriculture: 1.4%;
industry: 8%;
services: 90.6%

The services that tourism generates, as a whole, cannot be ignored.

Just because some folk are a little "xenophobic" , perhaps?”

“How does TDGVA at 11% in Cornwall correlate to 'services: 90,68%'.

Perhaps you are trying to compare apples and oranges?”

“Thanks again KernowForward. Your discussion and views are welcomed.

We have been given to understand that in fact, Cornwall pays dearly for tourism and second home 'occasional occupancy' in terms of environmental damage and extra public cleansing, of beaches for example, demands made on our public services by tourists, high local rates and the like. We have sent out for more information on this.

We already have evidence of a GP surgery in Falmouth struggling to serve residents due to demands being made on it by 'drop in' tourists demanding attention. One such occasion saw a vociferous tourist treated in advance of other patients registered with the Practice. It will be a matter of public record that Newquay has represented a considerable burden on us and that special seasonal deployments of police and other emergency workers has deprived other areas quite considerably.

A 'tourist tax' as employed elsewhere in Europe and further afield, could be used to offset the financial and other burdens on residents and to buy in extra services during influx periods.

We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures.

It has been good to note a more pragmatic approach to second home ownership/occasional occupancy by Cornwall Council particularly in view of the recent decision to comply owners to declare main occupancy to regularise voting rights and to prevent abuse of elections.

Unhindered tourism as has been the case thus far, appears not to be the way ahead for Cornwall.The creation of highly subsidised and short term tourist attractions has served to divert Obj. 1 and subsequent Convergence Funding away from its true purpose. Further, more elected representatives appear to now realise that tourism has made considerable demands upon us all.

U.K. statistics are of no interest to us.”

“"Tourism demand is measured by looking at the spending by groups of consumers classed together as 'tourists'. Tourism supply is the output of businesses classified as being in a tourist category:

Food and drink, accommodation and sports and recreation etc.

Services, in other words.
"”

“@kernowforward
from memory the 11% figure was the biggest single sector - top of the list of TDGVA.

You seem keen to downplay the role of tourism in order to popularise taxing it. You have failed.

Any councillor proposing this tax would lose their seat. The tourism lobby has deep roots to every part of the county.

Collecting such a tax would also be a total nightmare.

It is also a poor target for nationalists as overwhelmingly the whole cornish tourist industry is made up of small local businesses who spend thier money locally.

Still it probably bolsters up a very thin policy pamphlet for the nats”

“Here you go touristtax
36000 employed in accomodation and food servises

the single biggest employment sector in the county

http://tinyurl.com/d52loef
click on cornwalls economy at a glance”

“Slimslad: ""Tourism demand is measured by looking at the spending by groups of consumers classed together as 'tourists'. Tourism supply is the output of businesses classified as being in a tourist category:

Food and drink, accommodation and sports and recreation etc.

Services, in other words."

But not all services are tourism services - if they were then tourism, in Cornwall, employing just 14.4% of the workforce is even less dependent on tourism than you would, presumably, have us believe that the UK as a whole is at 90%?

Also employment is different to the value to the economy that is generated.

In fact your comparison is not even compring apples with oranges, but more like comparing apples with elephants!

TouristTaxNow: "We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures."

This is what concerns me about the concept of a tourist tax which taxes 'beds'. It is indiscriminate as to who it is taxing. A small local business, using Cornish services and providing real value for people in Cornwall would be subject (disproportionately to their resources) to the same burden as UK and international companies.

The tourist industry is not a bad thing per se. What needs to change is where the profits from it end up.”

“Touristtax said

''We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures''."

This a statement of pure fantasy.”

“H_Trevorrow: you appear to be guilty of not only misunderstanding the ONS figures but also doing Slimslad's trick of comparing things that are different.

The ONS has a definition of tourism industries and it also separates out services that are dependent on tourist as compared to those which are not.

For example, visiting tourists will purchase goods from supermarkets - does this mean that a supermarket is a tourist industry? Clearly some of its business is and some isn't. The ONS uses very complex models and criteria to evaluate all of these kinds of considerations but Cornwall Council does not.

In particular, the food industry will cater for local people as well as tourists and is also a growing export industry for Cornwall. Therefore conflating 'accomodation and food' to 'tourism' is once again comparing apples and oranges.”

“In creating any new tax you must look at the practicalities of collecting and policing said tax.
This would make the whole tourist tax unworkable and largely uncollected -- who is going to check on how many occupants at seaview cottage X 1000 their are every night- its a non starter.

Arguably the tourists contribute to the cornish economy heavily already through thier rent- parking fees- etc etc.
Notably nowhere else in the uk does this.”

“"Notably nowhere else in the uk does this."

So London doesn't have a much bigger tourism sector than Cornwall?”

“@kernowforward
yes london is a big tourist centre and YES they don't have a tourist tax.”

“So you were wrong then?”

“Follow the logic
either tourism is a key/important industry and therefore presents a burden or


it is an insignificant industry and therefore its burden must be less
??????
the nats want to portray an insignificant industry creating a hige burden...........only fools buy that.”

“kernowf
wrong about wahat?”

“Tourism can certainly be a good thing for the Cornish economy. However, it needs to be managed better so that the proceeds from the industry are more likely to remain in the Cornish economy rather than be spirited away by big globl companies which pay minimum wages for part-time, seasonal jobs. Cornish environment and culture is being adversely affected by unsustainable tourism practices.”

“What these people want is a return to the "corner shops" of the 50's.

Not going to happen.”

“H_Trevorrow: "Arguably the tourists contribute to the cornish economy heavily already through thier rent- parking fees- etc etc.
Notably nowhere else in the uk does this."

You were wrong!”

“kernow f
rest assured some of the biggest concerns in cornish tourism are from here --- where are the holiday inns large national hotel chains etc---they cannot be rs ed with the cornish tourist industry.

You are imagining tigers that don't exsist.”

“Fat Willy's, perhaps a good example of a good local small business:

Registered Office: 1 STERLING COURT, LODDINGTON,KETTERING,NORTHAMPTONSHIRE,NN14 1RZ

Haven Holidays: 1 Park Lane, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 4YL

Just two imaginary tigers that I googled within 20 seconds of your post appearing. If you care to do the same you may be surprised at just how many of these organisations take the profits from Cornwall.

Please don't provide a list of tourism based companies based in Cornwall. There are many. That is not the point that you were, incorrectly again, trying to make. It is fact that the profits of much of the tourism industry go straight upcountry or overseas.”

“kf
for clarity -- nowhere else in the uk has a tourist tax...apoligies if i confused you.

From your comments thus far it seems you are prone to confusion and i should have been more sensitive to this.”

“for a start fat willys is now a global business--started in cornwall
Roddas creamery , another world renown business, registered at Scorrier.
WE could swap these anecdotal niceties till the cows come home-”

“" Several Cornwall Councillors believe that tourism should be subjected to a tax."

Out of a total of 123 Councillors?

"Several" can "believe" all they want.”

“I have written to Mebyon Kernow via their website, asking if they support a Cornwall county only "tourist tax." So far they have not replied.”

“Ger
this tourist tax idea is mooted every ten years or so and always gets rejected.
Reasons being - almost impossible to administer - costs of administration - detrimental to the industry.

The most recent sighting of this lochness monster of a tax was in story in the travel pages of the telegraph last year.

The effect of such a tax would be to bite into the already small profit margin of local small businesses who already pay council rates.

Tourist taxnow is probably the blogger cornish zeitics for whom this dodgy tax and misrepresentation of statistics is a holy grail”

“Arent there enough petty irritating taxes already?

Many of us us have fleetingly thought of taxing tourists especially when stuck in a traffic jam on the Hayle bypass on a rainy August day when the poor blighters cant get on the beach and we are trying to get our work done.

Tourists are already taxed indirectly by the cheap nasty rip offs on things like overpriced ice creams etc which only show us Cornish in a very bad light.

its generally the cheap nasty end of the market that perpetually complains, a typical example being that awful strip of Newquay near the railway station which is my personal vision of hell.

Those who have a quality offering and deliver true value for money usually get by, it is highly significant that a fair proportion of the rip off merchants are incomers who see the tourist trade as a soft option to a fast buck.

JUST ENCOURAGE QUALITY TOURISM AND LET IT EARN AN HONEST LIVING.

NO TOURIST TAX ITS A COMPLETE NO BRAINER.”

“Just to point out Big_Ger that we are not connected with any political party. Our next posting will be when we receive the FoI request returns.

Personally, my political leanings are towards the Liberal Democrats but I am not a member.”

“That said, this might be of interest Big_Ger:

http://tinyurl.com/7l9adyy”

“Touristtaxnow, or one of their few freinds, will try using this same stat ie tourism =11% of our economy to argue we are over dependent on one particular industry.

Directly opposing his /her /their assertion that it is ''not a significant economic driver''”

“Try to remain polite and less aggressive in your manner Trevorrow/Antbod lest you want a repeat of yesterday. Your postings and obsessions are being recorded and monitored and it is such a waste of time to write so much as you do, even if much of it is barely literate, only to have it deleted.

Enjoy!”

“by by H_Trevorrow
"The effect of such a tax would be to bite into the already small profit margin of local small businesses who already pay council rates."

Very true and interesting comments by you on this topic H_Trevorrow, try not to be browbeaten or intimidated by those who troll this forum with the intention to disrupt.”

“I can almost see the point of a "tax on tourists". After all, Cornwall Council already charge passenger leaving Newquay Airport a £5.00 fee for their Airport Development Fund. But this fee is easy to collect and difficult to avoid. You are not allowed into Departures without your ticket from the machine. However, I imagine a £1.00-a-night "tourist tax" would have to be collected, (rather like VAT), by the owner of the holiday let. A whole new level of bureaucracy and paperwork added to an already huge pile of "red tape" , in my opinion.”

“Slimslad you've changed your name!”

“No worries YC.
I take the browbeating and attempts at censorship as a compliment.The actions of bad losers.”

“I haven't, Craig.

Have you?”

“I started thinking what ''extra burden'' does tourism create?
Tourists don't use education or adult care services....they rarely require the fire service...police arrests in Newquay at the this years run to the sun event were all locals......nobody gets on a cronish hospital waiting list while they are here.....any business establishment is required to use a commercial waste contractor ....nobody goes on holiday and uses the local governmant services like planning.....i'v never seen a tourist in a gp waiting room......they certainly don't require any housing or other benefits......whatever lifegaurding costs is probably well covered by the car parking fees.

Yet the establishments they use for 6 months of the year have to pay full council tax or business rates for the whole year. The fact is tourism pays its way many times over.”

“TOURISTTAXNOW has asked the council for information on how many people are employed in tourism seasonally and how many are from the county.

He could also ask the same question of the agricultural sector {broccoli , cabbage, flower picking}.



But would that appeal to the xenophobic tendancies of any support he may wish to harness or fail to play with the politics of envy???
Attacking working class ..not likely.

I believe he/she /they underestimate the intelligence of this county”

“"A singular response to you. We shall not respond to any of your postings hereonin nor take heed of them."

Ha! Always a giveaway, Carbon Boot, Calmer Waters, and many of his other "sock puppets" always refer to themselves by the "Royal We"

Oh, still no reply from MK to my polite and reasonable request for information from them!”